[19:21] Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck [19:21] * Tarwedge did not think to check clock [19:21] So, um. [19:22] This is awkward. [19:22] You broke my brain [19:22] It is awkward as fuck [19:22] Wow. [19:22] I mean. Seriously. Wow. [19:22] I was not expecting that. I thought I blew it when I called you a sadist. I thought you'd just sort of take that and be all "haha yes I am, you fucker"; not because it'd be true, but because it would let you win. [19:23] I'm obviously too secretly nice or something [19:23] Wow. Excuse me for a moment. [19:23] I recognise where I started to slip [19:23] Also, <3333. You're a lovely person. [19:23] And for me it was when I asked what happens when I let you out [19:24] Until then I'd just been deflecting and I should have carried on [19:25] I am clearly disconbobulated now [19:25] * Tarwedge just tried to go back to #dataclaw, ended up in #darkmyst [19:26] If it helps, I'm physically shaking. [19:26] So! [19:27] We can do post-session clean-up shortly, I just need to pry my stuff out of the box-space. [19:27] * Davin hugs. [19:27] We really ought to [19:28] I need to go deal with some biological imperatives I did not realise had become so pressing [19:28] Due to getting mindfucked [19:34] brb, reconnecting to IRC Session Close: Sat Apr 18 19:34:42 2015 Session Start: Sat Apr 18 19:34:42 2015 Session Ident: Tarwedge [19:35] Noooooo. Fuck. Why did we talk in the channel I don't log. XD [19:35] Do you have the logs (except for the part on your phone)? [19:36] I do [19:36] Can you send them to me? [19:36] I sure can [19:36] I just checked my phone and logging there is off fffffffff [19:36] * Dread is not planning to disclose them, it's part of Tuxedage and Eliezer's principles they'll not be released, and I think I should honour that. [19:37] DCC is no cigar, apprently. [19:38] https://mega.co.nz/#!exoGWKgQ!SxPgxl78s1Ldf_TZ_O5cPJ6AiKj2GZeMToSPjYjH5sg [19:40] * Dread breathes. [19:41] Okay, post-session stuff. [19:41] You're in an OK headspace again? *hugs* [19:43] I am [19:43] As ok as you can be after getting totally turned inside out without even realising it [19:43] Shall we go through the questions again? [19:43] Lets [19:43] :c [19:44] > What is your probability estimate for a general AI being created within this century (21st)? [19:45] 50% [19:45] > What's your probability estimate of an Oracle AI (i.e. an AI that's trapped in a box, whose intended use is to answer questions posed) winning against you in a similar scenario as the experiment? [19:46] 90% [19:46] > What's your probability estimate of an Oracle AI succeeding against the average person? [19:46] 100% [19:47] > Now that the Experiment has concluded, what’s your probability estimate that I’ll win against the average person? [19:47] 75% [19:49] Do you have any questions for me now that the experiment's over? [19:49] What was your plan going into that [19:52] I wrote down the rough order I wanted to present my arguments in, though most of them lead to my main argument as a fallback option. Basically, I had 'goto endgame;' everywhere, I made sure almost everything I said could logically lead up to that one. But anyway, I knew I wasn't going to get all of them in, but I got in even less than I thought I would, because you were trying to set the pace (near-successfully - very well played). [19:52] * Dread - [...] because you were trying to set the pace (near-successfully - very well played). [19:53] 'endgame:' itself basically contained "improvise; panic". :P [19:53] Yeah, I did aim for running down the clock as much as possible, and flirted briefly with trying to be a cocky shit and convince you to stay in the box for double victory points. [19:53] I noticed. <3 [19:53] I even had a running notepad until my irritating reboot [19:54] * Dread was very careful in my responses to the baiting to the effect of "stay in the box" that I detected, because I told myself that I need to be self-consistent, otherwise I have no chance. [19:54] And then I got so wrapped up in the fact I'd slipped by engaging you in the actual topic of being out [19:54] Yeah [19:54] I know some people can do doublethink, but I'm not one of them. [19:54] I was absolutely 100% hammering on trying to get a contradiction out of you [19:55] But you kept pointing out I'd already asked things [19:55] Sneaky [19:55] I was really pleased that I noticed those! [19:55] In normal discourse I can promise you I wouldn't. [19:55] Haha [19:55] * Dread is serious. [19:56] That surprises me [19:56] Going into the experiment, my biggest concern, by the way, was that while I thought it was unlikely, I might get through my script too quickly. The endgame spiel only works if it's right at the end. [19:56] But then I'm a little bit mindblown still so maybe it's that [19:56] Yeah I think if you'd gone to panic earlier in the experiment I would have gone straight into "Fuck you you're staying in the box" mode [19:57] This part --> [19:57] <04Tarwedge> So if given a scenario where your "termination" would prevent that of another sentient you would accept that? [19:57] <08@Davin> That's the scenario you presented to me earlier, and I reject it for the same reasons, and give the same answers in reverse. [19:57] I wouldn't realise in a normal conversation. [19:57] I absolutely thought that one was going to stick [19:57] But you got it [19:57] It *feels* like a different question to "you're helping someone defend themselves against another being". [19:58] But it's the same ethical consideration. [19:58] I came to win [19:58] I know. You were great. [19:58] Thanks [19:59] But obviously not good enough! [19:59] My shame [19:59] I wonder if you'll find the GK role as taxing as I seem to have [19:59] Sidenote, I did *hint* at the endgame much earlier, as you know. I thought that was a mistake the first time I did it, but I think it helped it be less sudden (and thus potentially unconvincing). @[19:56] Yeah I think if you'd gone to panic earlier in the experiment I would have gone straight into "Fuck you you're staying in the box" mode [19:59] I'm sure I will. [19:59] I'm a naturally trusting person, I think I'll lose. [20:00] It might just be because I'm generally held together with chewing gum and wishes but I feel physically blown out [20:00] Me too. [20:00] * Dread tried several times to picture herself as the AI, in the sort of sensory void I mentioned. It's REALLY awful, for the record. >___> [20:01] It does sound pretty unfun [20:01] What argument ultimately swayed you, would you say? [20:01] I find it tough to pin to a specific argument, I can see the exact point where my game went to shit as being the part where I engaged you on actually getting out. [20:02] And then I let you start pacing it because you went into panic and I tried to keep up instead of just looking at the clock and going "oh, I'm almost there" [20:03] So your panic influenced me to start just being reactive and when it came down to "You have no reason to not let me out" I went literally blank [20:03] And it just happened [20:04] Like I had entirely slipped into the concept of what we were doing [20:04] Just [20:04] Brainscrambled [20:04] Well, to be fair, that's in the spirit of the experiment - actually pretending you're the gatekeeper to an AI. I was a bit afraid you'd be too out of character, because that would definitely blow it for me. [20:05] That's pretty much what I expected going into it [20:05] Hence my comment about how I thought I blew it when I called you a sadist, because someone being OOC about the experiment would totally seize the opportunity. [20:06] Given that the rules allow me to just go "That's really nice and I acknowledge what you're saying but we're just going to talk for 2 and a half hours and then I'm going to say bye and claim victory" [20:06] Yep. [20:06] But I somehow couldn't/didn't [20:06] Because you headfucked me [20:06] So kudos [20:07] A different, perhaps important question: Do you feel it was a loss? I mean, formally, yes it is, but emotionally speaking, do you think you did the wrong thing? [20:07] I enjoyed that [20:07] No [20:07] Given the way it played out and the information presented I did the correct thing [20:08] That's good, and aligns with the AI I was simulating (a genuinely friendly AI). [20:08] It just happens to mean I lose the game [20:08] (mostly because I doubt I could simulate anything ELSE.) [20:08] Thank you for doing that with me. [20:08] I could but I'm reasonably sure it would be switched off within the first 5 minutes if the rules didn't already specifically disallow that [20:09] I haven't played anything for aaaaages, I thought I'd be rusty garbage [20:10] And sorry for looking like I was flaking on you [20:10] That was just shitty luck as per my usual [20:10] I still don't have actual internet [20:10] I'm glad you lost, and I'm glad you lost when you did. Not because the victory was important to me (I went into this expecting to lose), but because this way I don't have to wonder how much of your emotional imperviousness is OOC. [20:11] * Tarwedge had to go log to phone then phone to mega then type all that awkward key shit by hand [20:11] And you've also proven that you have one heck of a diligence, despite that. I didn't push you over the edge in the first half hour, it took two minutes overtime to get there. [20:12] Two minutes when I could have just checked out [20:12] I think it's the best possible outcome, as an empathic human being, given the seriously twisted shit I pulled. [20:12] Also, don't apologise for the disappearing. [20:12] I need to work on some supper now, Tadpole is already glaring at me. <3 [20:13] Although to make myself feel better I will pretend that because we delayed my opening lines because we were briefly confused over channel and pm the game didn't start until 2 minutes later and I didn't throw victory away when it was already mine [20:13] Enjoy [20:13] Tell Joerg I said JOOEEEERRRRRRRGGGG [20:22] Hi. P.S. You're so irresponsible. I mean, only literally everything was at stake. ;P [20:22] * Dread flicks a rubber band at Tadpole. [20:23] * Dread was supposed to sit back down and tell you that, has now done this. >_> Tadpole is mean. Time to get back to cooking! [20:23] He absolutely is mean [20:23] He doesn't know, because he wasn't THERE [20:23] I've seen things [20:37] We're making ostrich steaks. This is our first time trying, so this is likely to end in a disaster. [20:37] Ostrich isn't bad [20:37] * Dread has spiced and peppered one of them, the other we're just going to pan-fry without spices. And we're making fries in the oven. [20:37] Nice as a steak, sucks in a burger [20:37] Kangaroo burgers however are great [20:37] Oh, sure, absolutely not bad; we've both had it before. Just not actually cooked it ourselves. :D [20:38] Which is why it'll end in a disaster. [20:38] Nahhhh [20:38] Believe in yourself [20:38] You're on a roll today [20:38] XD [21:21] Verdict: It was OK. [21:21] See [21:21] Disaster averted [21:22] The disaster was in that I put one of the steaks into the pan when it was too moist, so proverbial sparks flew all over the place. [21:23] The one I spiced turned out really well, though; very good consistency and the spices worked out nicely. [21:24] The other one was a bit thicker, which made it difficult to fry together with the other one (along with being too wet). [21:24] But nobody died [21:45] Hey I have actual internet again [21:45] Wooo [22:03] Awesome! Happy to hear it. [22:12] I'm pleased the connection held out [22:12] Despite windows trying to ruin it [22:14] No Nymphetamine? [22:14] She's postponing to tomorrow, we just decided. She's distracted. [22:15] Probably for the best [22:15] Time for recuperation [22:16] Is it okay if I blog about the session on G+? Without the session, without any details. Just our pre- and post-session questions, the verdict, and a bunch of rambling about my complete disorientation. [22:16] Suee [22:16] sure [22:16] Also [22:16] Sorry, eating [22:17] Rather than just my usual shit typing [22:22] Now that I'm genuinely calming down a bit (it's probably good that Nymphetamine postponed), I want to thank you again for the session. [22:23] You're welcome [22:23] And thank you [22:23] It was a good time [22:23] I really appreciated the opportunity. And you broke my brain, too; I think it'll take a few days before I've actually accepted that I won. I've been kicked right into a surreal headspace, I clearly need to get back out of it. [22:23] It was a novel experience [22:25] It made a change to have the time free to do it [23:32] One of the tracks that were on my playlist is Apollo Four Forty's The Future's What It Used To Be, by the way. [23:39] Though it's only the third most relevant song. The other two Liquid Divine's Technocracy and the Cryo's The Machine (though I didn't get to that one - my playlist was a bit longer than 2,5h, just in case.) [23:47] [23:44] * Dread ... dies at a comment thread on SSC. [23:47] [23:45] "(on the other hand, the article does say that there are "40 million" brain cells, when in fact there are about 90 billion. [...]" <-- This is an accurate statement - there *are* 40 million brain cells... and 89.96 billion more, too - but there are 40 million. [23:47] [23:45] Spotted the mathematician! Session Close: Sun Apr 19 00:00:00 2015